The US government is now considering banning TikTok. I am not sure if it will last long, but I am opening this thread to get thoughts on such a ban. I will open by sharing my view on such a ban.

This is coming directly from what I posted on Facebook , Twitter , and Change.org :


Banning TikTok is a violation of the First Amendment. It does nothing to stop China from spying on users in the United States and it hurts the careers of dozens of advertisers and TikTokers who rely on the app to make a living. This is merely a political move that hurts the consumer more than it helps the US economy. And it is easy to get around banned apps with a VPN.

Also, important to note that Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, they also spy on you as well. Whether mass surveillance is ethical or not is a completely different debate, but it is important to recognize that banning such an app does nothing whatsoever to stop it.


What are your thoughts on such a ban?

1 Like

Ban it. All i gotta say wait hmmmmm yea i couldnt care if it was banned or not

I can’t really share my thoughts on the proposed ban without getting political, so I’ll just say it’s not going to stand up in court and leave it at that.

I wouldn’t mind if TikTok faded out just because of how annoying it is, though, but that’s a personal thing. I was more of the Vine type, and TikTok hasn’t really managed to reproduce that.

3 Likes

Ban it. I couldn’t care less. I don’t use TikTok but my brothers do, and it’s very annoying. And the worst thing is: TikTok’s videos are short enough, where they are all uninformative to really get even the remotest clue of what the creator is attempting to say to the viewer.

1 Like

Here is my view, I think that this is extremely unprecedented and wrong to ban Tik Tok, but, it looks like legally, it can be done, whether I don’t believe that Banning Tik Tok would violate the first amendment, The first amendment says: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” I don’t see how banning tik Tok would “abridge the feedom of speech”, because anybody can still post what they think on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram instead of Tik Tok, so I think that any such ban would be legal. If Tik Tok was a US company, then Trump would not be able to shut them down, because their are other sections of the Constitution that protect against that, but since Tik Tok is a foreign company, those other sections do not apply fully. Also, Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution says, “[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes”, and through the International Emergency Economic Powers Act Congress has delegated this authority to the president, and it " may be exercised to deal with any unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States, if the President declares a national emergency with respect to such threat." So it looks like the president does have the authority to do this. He could argue in his executive order that Tik Tok presents a threat to national security, and he could issue a national emergency in response to China’s rising power in the International community. However, I don’t really know how he plans to actually attempt to enact this ban, but it would probably fail if it is a sloppily done as his attempt to reverse DACA. If his staff manage to write the order properly, then I would image that it would succeed. Trump could also add ByteDance (Tik Tok’s parrent company to the commerce departments entity list, which would prevent US companies from doing business with them. This method was used agains Huawei, and it has prevented them from using the latest version of Android on their phones, and it stood up in court. I don’t know what he is trying to achieve here though, a lot of people like Tik Tok, and an election is coming up, I can’t imagine that this will earn him much votes, in fact, he will probably lose votes over this. I personally would not mind too much if Tik Tok was banned, I don’t like the short form video format, and I don’t use the app, so I would not be affected by it. I do want to say though that if Tik Tok was bought by an American company, and I have heard that Microsoft is interested, then this would clearly be unconstitutional under the Due process clause of the 5th amendment (which does not apply fully to foreign companies.) Of course, the courts may not agree with my view of the situation and the laws surrounding it, and this ban will probably be challenged in court.

It’s all a game being played by Trump to draw people’s attention away from all the other horrendous things he’s doing and everything else happening in the country.

8 Likes

I always like to imagine my version of a perfect world. My world has many things, but one of those things is that Tik Tok us banned, along with me being President for life, etc.

Honestly, contrary to my previous statement, I wouldn’t care if TikTok was banned. Its not really violating the first amendment even if it were to get banned. Though in all honesty, I don’t necessarily care for TikTok much, in my personal opinion.

With regards to whether it’s a First Amendment violation or not - I’ll admit I only have a high-school-level knowledge of the first amendment and law, but I’m pretty sure banning the app would technically qualify as a violation. You can’t shut down websites or say people can’t use them just because they’re saying or doing things you don’t like, and TikTok has been pretty critical of Trump - a lot of the userbase actually took credit for the low turnout in his Tulsa rally. In order to shut down an app or website, there actually has to be something illegal or a serious security concern beyond just “they collect your data”, which isn’t the case here. (And even so, it’s possible to come back after the fact - Tumblr returned to the App Store when they did a blanket-ban of porn to combat the child porn problem.)

TikTok issued a statement saying they aren’t going anywhere, so they aren’t just going to sit and take it. But for all we know, this might not even go anywhere. Right now, politics feels like high school where the students are engaging in less drama than the teachers.

3 Likes

Geez, I didn’t think about all that. You’re right.

I’ve went through and looked at some court decisions and other parts of the constitution, and it looks like such a ban may be unconstitutional because of the Fifth amendment (which may apply to foreign companies, their appears to be conflicting court rulings, and I can’t figure out the answer), or perhaps even the fourteenth amendment could apply, and maybe even Article 1 Section 9’s prohibition on Bills of Attainder (which are laws that specifically target one person or group) because such a ban would negatively affect US citizens Also, if Trumps reasoning for banning Tik Tok is politically motivated (and I would not be surprised if this is the case), then that could play a factor, if he wants to ban it for political reasons, then the First amendment could come into play, but the main problem would be to prove it, perhaps lawyers could subpoena or file a freedom of information act request for any communications that Whitehouse staff made concerning the ban to try to prove that the ban is in Bad Faith and is politically motivated. But, if this ban does happen, and I was a lawyer for Tik Tok (I am not actually a lawyer, I am just very interested in the law in general), I would not argue the First Amendment, because the other sections of the constitution that I mentioned above provide for stronger arguments. What parts of the constitution apply, and the legality of any such ban all depend on how Trump actually tries to carry out the ban, I am saying this because I want to emphasize that this is not a clear cut case, something like this has never been attempted, and their is absolutely no court cases to look at to see how legal it would be. this ban may actually prevail. I personally opposesuch a ban because I believe that it would set a dangerous precedent, no web service has ever been banned in the United States before, and I don’t like the idea of the government banning online services for any reason.

3 Likes

I’ve not actually kept up with it all, or why it is being banned (I’m not American, so not directly affected by this), but it seems a tad unnecessary, no? I personally don’t like the app, I find it annoying, but that’s not a reason for it to be banned.

All social media has political stuff on it. If TikTok gets banned, it might then cause other sites to be banned, because “Hey, if we are capable of banning one site, why stop now?”. It could then cause the American government to be unable to draw the line, and ban more sites (and that sounds like a dictatorship). I’m sure Trump would be devastated if his pride and joy (his Twitter account) was censored.

We are literally going through a pandemic, America seems to be doing the worst in the world, and on top of this, there is of course the Black Lives Matter movement, and Trump suddenly goes off to “inspect” his hideout thingy. I think he needs to get his priorities in order, you cannot just remove a site “because politics”.

I’ve never been a fan of TikTok, but I really don’t think a country should remove it. I don’t like hot drinks, but I’m not going to ban everyone else from enjoying them. I think TikTok has been problematic and has had some questionable trends, but so has every other social media site, pretty much. I don’t think it has done anything illegal, so banning it seems rather extreme.

5 Likes

Exactly. If the government was to ban TikTok for user-created content, then the problem lies with the users posting the questionable content. As for the trends, you may as well go ahead and ban Twitter if the trends are problematic.

1 Like

It looks like Tik Tok is here to stay now. The US government is forcing a sale of Tik Tok to Microsoft instead of banning it. This article has more information: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/microsoft-in-talks-to-acquire-tiktok-after-trump-ultimatum/

2 Likes

I’m not a fan of TikTok, so it doesn’t hurt me, but I do agree with your points:

  1. It does, in a way, violate the first amendment,
  2. It doesn’t prevent China from spying on us, but it does help.
  3. It also does hurt many users, as some of them make money from making and interacting with others on TikTok.

Kind of how Galactic said, I won’t start going too far into much, as it will get political in a sense. I don’t like arguing over politics unless it’s absolutely necessary.

1 Like

It is now 18 October 2020, two months since the last comment was posted. About a month ago a US district court filed an injunction that blocked the TikTok ban (at least for now).

Thinking about it now, TikTok may be a threat to national security. But for a reason not related to spying.

TikTok is a social network that anyone can post to. As such, another country can use the platform to spread misinformation. But this is just an inherent part of allsocial networks; therefore, to some extent or another, all social networks may be a threat to national security.

In the shower, I thought that an easy, yet unpopular way to stop election interference is to set up a firewall like China did. Of course, all of this would likely be managed by the FCC. However, though, instead of the firewall preventing us from viewing outside sites, it prevents foreigners from viewing US sites. The firewall would be enabled from 3-6 months prior to election until 1 month after the election.Like I said, this would definitely be a largely unpopular policy, and there probably is a less extreme way that our own FCC can stop election interference entirely.

(Yeah, and apologies for bumping…)

1 Like

No. Hard no on the idea of cutting off other countries even to prevent election interference.

If you start cutting off other countries from being able to access your information, barring anything beyond national security reasons, you are shifting away from an open country and into fascism or dictatorship. There’s a reason the Allies in WWII didn’t intervene with the concentration and death camps sooner - because they didn’t know they existed . The second you start blocking out other countries, you are immediately on a slippery slope of what information they’re allowed and not allowed to have, and as we’ve seen with multiple governments today (as well as various points in history), that is a very dangerous thing. What’s needed is better security and more laws around election interference, not cutting other countries off.

(Sorry for this not being related to TikTok, I’m just keeping a very watchful eye on politics this year, and the US is in a very dire position right now.)

4 Likes

I gave this thought as well. In my humble opinion, restricting internet traffic incoming to the US is a lot better than restricting internet traffic going outside the US. One does not really infringe on the first amendment, the other really does. But that is provided the assumption that the first amendment applies only to those that are inside the US. “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.”

And yes, we do not want fascism or dictatorship. This would also be very unpopular because sites like Facebook have over a billion active users - of which only a fraction of them is in the US. These sites would lose a lot of money on the order of billions if they are unable to get traffic from outside the US. But a simple solution to that is to have data for individual citizens stored on servers where the user is located.

1 Like

Exactly

Dude all i know is that its a total lie because its not banned yet in america!