Read wikihow.com/wikiHow:Welcomer-Rights-Project
for more info. Although in my opinion, there should be a separate quiz for aspiring tip patrollers. The votes are currently 10-1 and 9-2.
Hiya! There currently is a poll going on on wikiHow, so I guess can people not post on this thread for now? There’s this order the project is t trying to follow, so I guess maybe a forum for this could be created later?
Maybe after the votes exceed 15 this can be reopened.
@FlowerPower555
Maybe, but like I said, I’m not in charge of this.
@FlowerPower555
I think that there’s an order or something the leader requested, which you can view on the project home page at the bottom
A note to everyone: please visit the project’s home page for more information about this current thread, the current poll, and more information. For now, us it alright if you please do not post on this discussion? After the poll, there will be a time for people to post suggestions, and after that, there will be a forum post with everyone’s advice incorporated. Thanks!
I agree with flowerpower. Maybe we could do the thing for welcomers, except the tips patrol part. I’m not totally clear on who is able to use certain tools, but I think that certain things, like tips patrol, could have a test to be able to use them. Could someone clarify for me (I’m kind of new still) who gets to use what tools? I don’t really feel like tips patrol furthers the mission of a welcomer.
I completely agree that welcomers should be included in “Welcome Bot”.
@Reepicheep
- Welcomers gain access to Welcome Wagon. Boosters get access to NAB, NFD Guardian, and now Tips Patrol. Admins gain access to tools aimed at wiki maintenance, like page deletion and protection, and also currently have access to Tips Patrol. Both admins and boosters are put on the WelcomeBot
I think it’s worth bringing up that while it makes sense at a glance to have welcomers on WelcomeBot, the use of WelcomeBot and Welcome Wagon are different. WelcomeBot is primarily aimed at giving new users an experienced user to ask for help - when I had my WelcomeBot enabled, I received a ton of questions about things like creating new articles or policies or even just totally unrelated stuff, which not every Welcomer would be informed on. It’s also not uncommon to get trolls through WelcomeBot, and boosters and admins are expected to be able to handle those diplomatically; Welcomers don’t necessarily have that same skillset. Welcome Wagon is aimed primarily at making new users feel welcome and encouraged, and opening up the lines of communication. They might be similar on the surface, but they’ve got two different uses
I also get the impression the Tips Patrol restriction is currently temporary due to the experimental nature of the tool? See here
. Depending on how that goes, the restriction might be removed in due course anyway.
I was thinking something along the same lines as what GalacticRadiance said about the welcome bot tool. Becoming a welcomer is usually one of the first tools a newer user will want to be able to test out of, and the welcome bot people are usually very experienced. So the welcome wagon users might not know as much of the policy as, say, and admin or booster. I am trying to become a welcomer right now, and I don’t know beans about policy : P
Most welcomers are experienced with policy though. In the article on becoming one, one of the steps states you have to be able to help new users.
Aren’t they the same thing? Like, if you welcome someone on welcome wagon, a lot of times they get back to you asking for help. If you are on WelcomeBot, they usually get back to you asking for help too. Same scenarios. Plus, you need 300 contributions and 1 month of experience, so it should be fine.
Also, you wouldn’t pass the test without at least some knowledge about policy. For example, if a user wrote an article and it got NFDed, you probably would mention it, and it’d be natural to give them some advice. How are you supposed to give advice if you have no knowledge about policy?
I also want to express that there be separate tests for tools, such as tip patrol (mentioned above), NFD Guardian (long shot, but just my 2 cents), and RC Patrol (at least set a limit for new patrollers, like a minimum number of contributions, or a limit of how much you can patrol).
I took the Welcomer test in 2016, so things might have changed since then, but I was actually taught that we should never coach when welcoming users - welcoming’s about making them feel appreciated and welcome in the community, not about telling them their article got NFD’d or anything along those lines. The most I’ve seen is some very slight guidance on using Spellchecker or RC Patrol just saying that you can skip things if you’re unsure. Welcoming someone by telling them their article was NFD’d isn’t all that welcoming
Also, from what I’ve observed (and Jayne can correct me if I’m wrong on this), it’s more common for newer users to become Welcomers, which doesn’t require
a grasp on policy like NAB does. NAB requires you to already know the Merge and Title policies, while welcoming doesn’t have any policies tied into it. Being able to help and knowing the policies are also two different things - you can apply a tag to an article, yet have no idea when you should be applying it. I’d generally expect a Booster who’s been on the wiki for two months to have a better grasp on wiki advice than a Welcomer who’s been on the wiki for two months, because the focus of the tasks is different.
Hi everyone! Actually, we were planning to have a forum discussion after the group discussion, which will be after the poll. Also, we left a proposal on our project page, which you can view more there. So, can people not post on this discussion for now? TY!
Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the discussion first, though, and on the forums? That way, we’re not patrolling a bunch of edits to the pages, and people can share their thoughts on why this should or shouldn’t be implemented. Just saying “yes” or “no” isn’t specific, and doesn’t allow any room for discussion or for questions to be answered.
I meant giving them advice on the NFD. Like first saying something like “Great article - it’s off to a good start! Even if was nominated for deletion (see message above), it still can be saved. I can help with that if you’d like”.
I understand the focus of tasks is different, but it’s just an idea. Both require a basic understanding of policies. And, (correct me if I’m wrong), most welcomers have been on here for at least 3 months.
@Galactic-Radiance
According to HappyWiki, he’s planning to first have the poll, then allow people to comment on their ideas on the discussion page, and then build a consensus in the forums.
I get that this isn’t really a policy, but when it comes to policy proposals, you need to achieve consensus first before there’s any actual voting ( source
). I’d guess a similar thing applies here, since this would be a major overhaul of the role.
Ok, so we’ll just follow the steps in the article. First up, discussion.
@Galactic-Radiance
Hello. Actually, our poll was just a decision to start the act. The proposal you see now isn’t the complete one, but just one to help users know where to start their thoughts for poll Q1. This forum discussion wasn’t suppose to be made. Our progress is currently BEFORE the article’s steps, and we are actually just getting the project started. I hope this is easy to understand. Thanks!
