We have how-to’s such as  https://www.wikihow.com/Play-Icy-Tower-in-Keyboarding-Without-Getting-Caught and  https://www.wikihow.com/Get-a-Detention . I’m worried about these articles sticking here because I think they will encourage children to misbehave. What are your thoughts?

If they are looking for a way to cause trouble and act out in class, they’ll easily be able to find one on wikiHow and while I don’t know of too much harm that these articles do, I’m a little concerned that they will egg children and teens on to act out in school. I feel the same about articles like https://www.wikihow.com/Be-Annoying . Is there necessarily a policy against them? What have the longtime editors decided about keeping them?

I haven’t heard of any policies against these kind of articles and I was actually wondering along the same lines as you even when I first came here.

I believe that “get a detention” sounds like it could violate the deletion policy.

There’s no NFD for doing things considered socially unacceptable. As someone on the Discussion page of Get a Detention put it, “*f someone wants to be dumb and do this, it’s not the article’s fault”. A lot of these types of pages have been plugged through the NFD system at least once and been kept, and trying to delete them just because it could encourage misbehavior is a poor reason for deletion, in my opinion.

Also, it’s worth considering that if someone wants to act out in school, they’re going to act out regardless. Whether or not we have a guide on how to do so doesn’t influence them in that regard. (I can’t even remember how many of my classmates got detentions before Get a Detention was written.)

i’m very sneaky

Good point @galactic-radiance ! Thanks for sharing. I do agree that following the article’s steps is within people’s free will and they can perform these actions without a such article… I just thought that people who don’t know how to get a detention, slack off without getting caught, etc. would be egged on by the fact that they can do an easy search through wikiHow and find an article on how to do so. Imagine someone thinking “Oh how do I play this game without getting caught? I can just look that up on wikiHow!” 

Yeah, I’ve always worried about these types of articles.

@Adelaide , you have a point, however, I think there’s something that needs to be said here. There is no policy against these articles. They aren’t illegal and we have no reason to delete them or anything like that since policies don’t apply. I understand where you’re coming from but like Alex said, you can’t delete an article for being socially unacceptable or encouraging something that might be considered “bad behavior”.

“How to do ANYTHING” am I right? XD

Good points everyone. And I thought of a new NFD category: socially unacceptable/encourages misbehavior, but that may be subjective since we’re a global community. I just don’t want our articles to tempt people into misbehaving. Sure it’s within their free will as to whether to follow the steps, but perhaps if they find these pages they might think “oh, I can do it because wikiHow has an article on it.” @anna and @eric , since you’re admins and long-term contributors, what do you think the community has decided over the years on these topics? Perhaps adding some warnings in these articles (“do this at your own risk”) instead of deleting them is a good compromise? I think we already have some of these. 

Frankly, I oppose the addition of an NFD solely because something could potentially encourage misbehavior. We could lose a good portion of our articles to that NFD reason, since that’s such a gray area and what one person thinks is fine could be inappropriate to another person. (Profanity is a good example - we’d likely lose Start Swearing, even though profanity is such a borderline case with many opinions on where it’s acceptable.) People could misuse Tie a Noose to hurt themselves or others, or misuse Shoot a Gun to shoot someone, but we have articles on those topics and there would be nothing we could do to prevent someone from misusing the pages aside from including warnings (and safety instructions where applicable).

Most of the pages that are really iffy are either stubbed, demoted, or both, which makes it much harder for people to come across those pages unintentionally. But trying to delete pages just because they can encourage misbehavior is a really slippery slope because it would be very hard to draw a line on what’s appropriate and what isn’t, and we’d risk deleting some legitimate topics with that NFD.

I agree with @Galactic-Radiance .  There should be several warnings for these types of articles in their Warnings section, too, though I believe many of those articles have them.

Thanks for the ping, Adelaide. This debate has come up in the forums every few months over the years. In general, the consensus has always been to keep this kind of article, and not to amend the Deletion Policy in this area (keep in mind, changing any community-created policy is actually a big undertaking, too, with a relatively formal process to it). I myself happen to agree strongly with this consensus, so perhaps describing a little of my own thinking will help put that perspective in context.

One of the great joys of working on this wiki is also one of the biggest challenges: we have a very diverse community, both of editors and of readers. Our mission is to teach everyone on the planet how to do anything - that means we serve people with all kinds of backgrounds and belief systems from all over the world. Excluding a few key areas covered by the Deletion Policy, we don’t really aim to be topic-based gatekeepers for what people can share and learn about on wikiHow.

The scope of our mission can be hard to fathom, especially for newer wikiHow contributors. Having editors from all over the world means that there is a very wide range of what people think and feel about almost every topic on the site. That diversity, in my opinion, makes us stronger. It makes us better able to serve a diverse community of readers. It also means that there won’t be any one concept of what is “socially acceptable”. Parts of my own lifestyle are likely unacceptable to some of our readers, and parts of their lifestyles may be alien or even unacceptable to me. That’s okay - we’re citizens of a beautifully diverse world, and don’t have to agree on everything:slight_smile:

Many of the topics you’ve brought up here involve some fairly mild misbehavior, sure. But it’s clear, like Joel said, that they don’t violate our Deletion Policy, and I’d say the advice they provide isn’t the end of the world, even if you or I don’t agree with it all. As Alex pointed out, it’s unlikely anyone would be inspired to misbehave for the first time because of a wikiHow article; it’s much more likely that these topics just serve as comic relief and entertainment for readers. On the grander scale, any topic on wikiHow can be used well or misused, and that’s not within our control as a community (as Alex also mentioned). I personally also feel it’s not within our scope to decide what’s socially acceptable or not, for somebody else. Communities and cultures differ widely in their day-to-day norms, and these norms evolve over time, so my opinion of what is acceptable won’t necessarily overlap perfectly with someone else’s.

I wasn’t around on wikiHow when the Deletion Policy was created, but I have to take my hat off to the fine wikiHowians who collaborated to craft it. It strikes a very intentional and successful balance, I think, when it comes to what topics can be kept here. Sure, we don’t keep articles that would universally be considered detrimental (universally illegal and hate-based topics, for example), but we do leave the door open to provide education in all kinds of other areas (even in areas of silly misbehavior!). This is great for a wiki in particular, because it means we can grow and change as the world changes. Content that might seem socially unacceptable now could be beneficial to folks in the future (think how the world has evolved in the last few years in areas like LGBT+ rights). We are intentionally not overly restrictive when it comes to what kind of content is shared here, and I think that serves our readers well… and it sets us up to keep serving readers well and pursuing our mission for years to come, even as the world changes around us:slight_smile:

I agree.

me too

@ Adelaide  , I agree as well.  This WikiHow:   wikihow.com/Get-a-Detention , might encourage children to misbehave and get detention, as said in the title. Then this WikiHow:   wikihow.com/Be-Annoying , also will encourage children to be annoying, as said in the title. My brother Carter is ten and my sister Cierra has an account on here.  I do not think People should have the right of doing this. ( DISCLAIMER THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS, NOT YOURS ) Again, @ Adelaide , I agree with you. 

@Amana_jane , check out staff member @Anna ’s post above - the general consensus from the community over the years is that they’re not hurting anyone, and we aren’t really here to draw an arbitrary moral boundary on what’s okay and what isn’t. What one person finds annoying, another person might find endearing; what someone thinks is socially unacceptable is normal behavior to someone else, and so forth.

I think there should be a policy that makes articles that help children misbehave able to be nominated for deletion. There are so many WikiHows on how to stay up late without your parents knowing.

Articles about not getting caught can stay as long as they don’t encourage or instruct anyone to do something that could get someone hurt or killed, as well as doing something that could result in property being destroyed or damaged.

@Wriara   I agree.