Hey,
So, I’ve noticed a lot of articles in the “Friends and Family of LGBT” category use language that a lot of LGBT people find offensive like calling us “homosexuals” which feels very othering and weird.
I’m really tired right now and I have a lot of school work so I’d appreciate some help in removing homophobic language, particularly in articles about homophobia.
It’s good to keep terminology up-to-date and respectful of what people in the community call themselves. I should have free time to help out here and there.
To all editors: One way to find articles that use outdated terminology is to use the Special:Search
page and search for the outdated word. This way, you can find the word and replace it with up-to-date, respectful wording.
@ElectricGears
, you seem to know the terminology. Are there any other words we should be looking for and replacing? If so, with which words?
As someone who’s transgender, I actually want to throw forward another few terms that I’ve noticed many other transgender people dislike. People seem to use the word “transsexual” to refer to people who are transgender, regardless of whether the person has had surgery or not. Many others in the transgender community also don’t like using the words “female to male (FtM)” or “male to female (MtF)”, because it implies that we once were “male” or “female”, when many people feel they never were part of the “male” or “female” category. Most of us just want to be referred to as transgender males (what others would call FtM) or transgender females (sometimes referred to as MtF), if the transgender part is even necessary.
In short: replace “transsexual” (unless it’s explicitly talking about trans people who have undergone sex reassignment surgery), “female to male”, “FtM”, “male to female”, or “MtF”.
I’m not trying to be clueless here, but what kind of homophobic language are we referring to? Is the word “homosexual” offensive…? Are there other words I’m not aware of that could be considered offensive?
There’s not much else that hasn’t been covered. I would also get rid of the word “queer”, LGBT or LGBT+ should do to replace it if you’re referring to the community, if it’s someone calling themself queer it should be fine.
And yes, homosexual is considered offensive, it reminds people of when being gay was a mental disorder. It’s easy to replace with gay, lesbian, or same-gender attracted.
Thanks for the help!
Marina
7
Yikes. The acronym has even been extended to include the word queer before, so I hadn’t considered it offemsive? And I’ve always been fine and happy and dandy with the term homosexual? And at my school, which is 77% lgbtqia+ members, we all use the term homosexual…? I’m obviously confused I guess
Oh, okay, thanks! I agree about queer, though I personally don’t know any of my LGBT friends to be offended by it, I totally get that it can be considered a slur still and it should be removed I think. Just my two cents.
I’ll try to help out by doing this whenever I see it patrolling or doing other activities!
system
9
From what I’ve been reading in the last few hours from a variety of sources, the term “homosexual” seems to be offensive to some, not to all, and it was mainly in the past that negative connotations were associated. While I can appreciate the sensitivity to the LGBT+ community with respect to terminology, I would disagree that we should blindly eliminate the use of the word in all articles without considering the context of its usage.
It would be far more of a service to our readers to identify specific instances of the use that could be construed as offensive, given their use in that context, and replace them with more specific terms. However, “LGBTQIA+” is not a synonym for “homosexual,” and to treat it as such is not only, in my opinion, less specific, but also incorrect.
It is also worth noting that even the term LGBT has critics, who feel the term does not equally represent the different issues, values, and goals of the different parts of the community, among other things. Ironically, “queer” is a term that has been proposed as an alternative, but hasn’t been widely adopted because of some, again, older negative connotations.
My point is that it is a challenge to a.) be accurate and b.) not offend anyone, particularly at a time when the rights and needs of the LGBT community are more in the spotlight, so we should opt for language that most people understand and use and that is not considered universally offensive.
Marina
10
^So true, completely agree.Also did not mean to imply that lgbtqia+ = homosexual. Was not my intent at all, but rather me probably writing too quickly and not thinking. Thanks for pointing that out.
^ +1, good point. I also see how homosexual has a practical use seeing as it refers to both gay men as lesbian women, where as “gay” doesn’t really have that connotation. If an article is referring to both gay men and lesbian women then homosexual is definitely the best term in my opinion. Just an afterthought.
system
12
@Marina
no worries, and I’m sorry I was not clear that I was responding to something that Electric gears said, not your comment… I did not mean to imply that you were implying that LGBTQIA+ = homosexual… so we are definitely on the same page there! :))
Electric gears was implying that “homosexual” could be replaced with LGBT or “gay or lesbian,” which is what I was referring to when I said that it’s not equal and not synonymous and that sometimes “homosexual” is the right choice.
@Isorhythmic
gotcha, now it seems all three of us are on the same page
I did some digging and it looks like “gay” is a far, far more popular search term
than “homosexual.” Thus, it would be better for our search results.
According to GLAAD
, “The Associated Press, The New York Times and The Washington Post restrict use of the term ‘homosexual.’” GLAAD explains that the term “is aggressively used by anti-gay extremists to suggest that gay people are somehow diseased or psychologically/emotionally disordered,” an idea which was discredited in the 1970s.
If we switch our language, we are…
- better optimizing for search results (something we do very often)
- keeping up with the times, and the guidelines of major media outlets
- respecting a community when they say “this word is often used to hurt and isolate us,” and sending a message that they are safe and welcome here
I am not SGA (same gender attracted). But as an Autistic person, I do know how much power words have, and there are many websites that use language my community is not comfortable with, and websites that actively hurt us. WikiHow switched to Autistic-friendly language a little over a year ago, and I remember its effect on me: it told me that I mattered. That my voice was valued, and I was cared about. Honestly, it’s why I edit here and not at Wikipedia.
I can handle the logistics and labor part. I will happily undertake the entire project by myself, if it means that gay people feel welcome here too. Not only is this good for logistical reasons, but it lets them know we care. I think that’s worth fighting for.
Also, I’d like advice regarding a really creepy title: “How to Identify Homosexual Tendencies in Family Members.” It makes it sound like they’re weeding out unbelievers.
The article itself is fairly gay-friendly (at least according to my limited ally perspective), and is an itty bitty stub that encourages support and putting the family member at ease. It hasn’t passed quality review and could clearly use an expansion.
What would be a more respectful title? Maybe something like “How to Tell if a Family Member is Gay?”
@MissLunaRose
- I took a look at the article, and while the language in the article seems fine (from a bisexual person’s perspective anyway), I agree about the title change. I’m going to work on the article a little bit, but before any title changes come into play, what are others’ opinions of changing the title of the article to “Tell if a Family Member is LGBT” and expand the article to cover gender identity, as well?
@GalacticRadiance
I think that’s a good idea, but I’d try really hard to stay away from stereotypes. I’ve never understood articles about how to tell if people are gay or whatnot, because in my experience it’s rather hard (taking for example me, I’m extremely average looking and I break a lot of stereotypes as to how LGB people should look/act so nobody ever suspects me to be bi) but that’s just me on my soap box again.
@Rosejuice
- I actually just finished writing a step saying to avoid stereotypes, so that wasn’t what I meant.
The article link is wikihow.com/Identify-Homosexual-Tendencies-in-Family-Members
, for those who want to improve it.
A “Tell if a Family Member is LGBT” article could be really useful! I like the idea of expanding to include trans family members, and people with other identities (bisexual, asexual, etc.). We could specifically warn readers away from following stereotypes, and also include a section on how to proceed making the family member feel welcome, getting them to resources so they can find information & community, et cetera.
I like your title suggestion, and if other people feel the same way, I can move it.
@GalacticRadiance
no worries, wasn’t accusing you of anything, just making sure!
