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I am amazed by the number of WikiProjects on the site. Many of them are started by new users who do not understand the policies and guidelines well. Most projects (including those by myself) gain some hype for a little bit, but then the project is unmaintained. So I wanted to start a discussion about the future of projects and wikiprojects on the site. I have a few questions that may be a good start, and maybe we can have a project inclusion policy or guideline for future and current projects.

The current problems I see with projects:

  1. They are often started without consensus. From a project about cleaning up articles in general (which is not a good project idea) to a (now closed) project about welcoming new users , these projects seem to be started without community consensus. While I appreciate the good intentions behind these projects, the fact that nothing is happening in them is an indication that people are less interested in actually carrying out the project’s goals and more interested in creating templates, designs, etc.
  2. They are often abandoned. A new user starts a project and forgets about it. Or an experienced user starts a project and forgets about it. This is problematic as it defeats the purpose of having a project page exist in the first place.
  3. They are very invisible to new editors and readers. A project that is invisible is going to get a lot less intention in the weeks where the project gets pushed down the forums list. People forget, and no one restarts discussion on the project.

With this in mind, I have a few questions about WikiProjects that can maybe help solve these issues.

  1. Should we have a system for more broadly obtaining consensus to start future projects?
  2. When should we delete projects? When should we mark them as historical?
  3. How can we increase project visibility? Should we have a project directory or a subforum dedicated to WikiProjects so they do not sit abandoned? Should we have the advanced search tool linked at the search bar so that editors can find projects?
  4. What should the criteria for a new project be? What should happen to new and existing projects that do not meet this criteria?
  5. Should we move projects to the forums or completely get rid of WikiProjects altogether?
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I have one more thought? Should we maybe have a wikiHow projects Discord server so that everyone partaking in a WikiProject can communicate about the project’s goals and working towards them more effectively?

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  1. Eh. This happens every once in awhile, but it’s a cyclical issue, like many things on the wiki. Ever since we’ve created clearer guidelines for project creation, linking the guidelines seems to slow people down and make them realize they didn’t think it through (and the really stubborn ones tend to fizzle out quickly when they realize how much work a project actually entails).
  2. We don’t delete projects, and most projects can be revived, so I don’t really worry about whether they’re marked as historical or not.
  3. Do we really need to increase project visibility? Most of our good edits don’t come from projects, and I fear increasing their visibility could actually have the opposite effect of what you’re proposing - people join them, but aren’t interested in actually helping, and instead just chat or design things.
  4. Project criteria is already tackled here and here . There’s no need to crack down on inactive projects that don’t meet this criteria (as you said, they’re not really visible), and I’m not really concerned with new projects unless they stray so far from this that they’re actually being disruptive.
  5. Why? What’s the harm in leaving it as-is? They’re not in the spotlight, and we don’t delete every page that isn’t relevant anymore. It’s not like we never have good projects pop up occasionally and make some major groundwork, either - think about the Autism Project or the Image Reuse Project. (And moving projects to the forums brings up further concerns about people using them as a means to chat. I’ve had to close threads that people were using to chat under the guise of “project work”.)
  6. No. I own and/or moderate some Discord servers myself. The nature of the platform actually means it would be harder to keep people on track and focused on the project, so it’d just turn into a massive chat server - and Discord servers often die out after awhile too, so if anything, it’s just moving the perceived problem elsewhere.
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Tbh I have been thinking of a “WikiProject” subforum just where we can advertise our WikiProjects. It will make clearer the goals of the project and it will be a lot more organized than on-wiki. It will also keep all project related discussion in one place.

Since projects are supposed to be a little more professional endeavor (sure there are some projects but those that edit articles are supposed to be more professional), I think it means that there needs to be clear cut goals that each team accomplishes. The lack of a suitable real-time-chat option was the reason why I suggested Discord (almost nobody uses IRC anymore lol and slack is for businesses), and any potentially problematic projects in the forums can simply be deleted.

The subforum would advertise the project to other editors interested in helping out and would probably follow a specific format for consistency. All discussion related to that project could be contained to that one forum thread. The most active projects will be at top, while the least active ones can simply have their threads locked and archived for historical reference.

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I really hope this doesn’t happen. It’s been a lot of fun to do wikiProjects.

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Same, I don’t think we should get rid of projects. While I have seen a few projects be started, then immediately forgotten and I may or may not be guilty of this , many projects have gotten some very impressive work done. I’m sure we’ll see some more projects just as impressive, if not even more so, in the future. If we completely did away with projects, we’d likely never get that impressive stream of edits that comes with projects.

I don’t think moving the projects to the forums would be the best idea either. Forums still have to be moderated, and since there is many a project that is started by a new user, many new users that could be TL0 would likely not start up a project since I don’t believe any user under Trust Level 1 can create a topic. This might relieve us of some projects that are forgotten as soon as they start, but it might also unknowingly rid us of an editor who truly wants to dedicate themselves to a new project. It’s a risk that would kind of have to be accepted if we moved all projects to the forums.

Also, as Alex mentioned, we already have long-standing and, in my opinion, very good criteria for a new project. I think it is fine as-is. New and existing projects that don’t meet the criteria… hmm. I think unless they are disruptive, inappropriate, or just existing for the purpose of existing, they are fine to stay.

As much as some of the projects have done impressive and essential work around the site, no disrespect here to several wonderful projects, but your typical project typically won’t be something to write home about. Increasing project visibility would likely be unproductive, since most users know how to find the Central Project Page.

Honestly, I don’t think projects should be deleted unless they are disruptive, inappropriate, or spam-like, as I said above. That said, they could be marked as historical if there has been little activity for at least a year or two, but if there is still a steady-enough stream of activity, I think it would be best to wait a couple months to see if the project dies out or continues.

Personally I also think the consensus system is fine.

Now to finish this so I don’t crash my poor Chromebook.  :P

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Tbh I do not want to do away with wikiprojects as well. The more fundamental question I probably had is if projects are still fulfilling their intended purpose. What I notice most happening is that someone starts a project just for the purpose of designing pages and templates, which does not exactly line up with our goal of creating a free how-to manual where anyone can share their knowledge on a topic.

More specific but off topic

@anon74718567 I am going to let you use your moderator’s discretion to determine whether https://www.wikihow.com/wikiHow:Cleanup-Crew should be closed in particular… I have pointed out holes in the project, that we do not need projects for dashboard tools or for general clean-up. Rather we need projects to expand articles on specific topics.

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We don’t delete projects. Please don’t request that unless it’s your own project.

Honestly, I haven’t seen this issue crop up repeatedly in a long time. As I mentioned, it’s cyclical. I’ve seen only one in the last three months (probably longer). There’s guidelines in place that we can refer people to when they do create these things. The projects aren’t very visible. Others may feel differently, and they’re welcome to add to the conversation if so, but I personally don’t see any need for any kind of urgency on this.

And a real-time chat option regarding projects doesn’t seem necessary. Our community is small; projects are often even smaller, with people spanning different schedules and timezones. It’s rare that I see a genuine project thread garner 10+ replies in less than an hour. Project threads can be put in Collaboration Corner when they are created. I really don’t see a need for any changes in how we handle projects at this time, though others may feel differently.

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I don’t think there’s any need to change or update anything with projects at the moment. As Alex has mentioned, we have guidelines in place for anyone who accidentally starts something incorrectly, and we don’t need to delete anything unless requested by the creator.

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Kind of off-topic but still related to WikiProjects

I did not say “delete”, I said “close”… like {{historicalProject}}, etc…

I remember two years ago Anna said that there is no need to start projects on the dashboard tools. That is what “cleanup crew” is.

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A project with a very broad goal is not good as there is no way to measure how close you are to that goal. Take a hypothetical project whose goal is to expand how-to articles on a particular role-playing video game. There is a way to measure their progress to completion. And even after reaching 100% completion, if the video game gets a DLC or something like that, then they can write articles on that DLC. Only after the video game has stopped getting updates and the video game guide is fully complete would the project be marked as historical. The articles the project created, though, would not be marked as historical until the game ceases to exist.

And on the topic of professionalism, I think focusing excessively on project designs is a bit unprofessional. Not only do we get project pages that look more like personal blogs, but we also get designs that violate W3C accessibility guidelines. Sure if you are a project on that XYZ video game you probably want to theme the page like XYZ, but other projects? It makes little sense to theme them. Or here is a better idea: keep it simple and not super elaborate.

Maybe the issue is we have a problem with how WikiProjects are handled, but we (or maybe even I) do not even know what the problem is… need to do more digging probably to uncover it… I may not even be on the right track. Maybe the problems are lack of professionalism and lack of defined goals… hmm…

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I don’t think that it’s necessary to delete old or little used project pages, nor to prohibit these pages from being created. It does not hurt anything to keep them, and they can actually help. For example, I got my idea for the Bold Edit Contest from an old wikiHow: page which was also called the Bold Edit Contest. But I don’t think that it actually ever took place, so under these guidelines to delete old project pages, or to not allow them to be started, that page would have not been there for me to see it, and I would have not gotten my idea for the Bold Edit Contest. So if this policy was in place, The Bold Edit Contest and the Answer Questions Contest would have never occurred, since I would have never had that idea.

I think that something similar could happen with many other old project pages. Maybe one day, somebody will come across one of the pages, and they might resurrect the project. Or they’ll get an idea from it that will help improve wikiHow or make contributing more fun.

Because of this, I don’t think that deleting old pages, or prohibiting pages from being created, is a good idea.

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I’m speaking for myself here, so others might feel differently - but I honestly do not see a problem with how we’re currently handling projects. They’re so out-of-the-way, and the ones that do get started and don’t meet our guidelines usually fizzle out within days.

Aasim, if I can be blunt, I feel this might be another case where you’re getting fixated on something that isn’t affecting anything on a broader level. There haven’t been any complaints or discussions about projects doing these things lately, and most of your examples are one-offs or are things that were done prior to the rewrite of our project guidelines (and as Jayne pointed out, we already have a way to deal with these situations if they do pop up). It’s okay to just let things be sometimes. We don’t need to do everything possible about every single thing that exists on the site.

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aha true.

I think maybe the issue I am having is the lack of professionalism that I see with some project designs… but then even you and I have different definitions of that depending on cultural expectations, etc. I have always aimed to maintain professional yet friendly communication when discussing the wiki. It does not mean that I write everything like a business email, we are not a business level site, unlike some other wiki communities. But it is to say that we are allowed to hold and to share our own opinions about how the site should be run. It is the run-of-the-mill troll that treats us like we are a joke, vandalizes articles, and makes goofy comments on serious forum threads or just generally “chats”.

A lot of our article policies and talk page policies highlight professionalism; that is, we need to meet a certain standard and be careful to make sure that we do not look like a jokebook. A personal blog or website is more well equipped to have all the designs you’d like to include.