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Hey folks,

I’m really interested in starting a Wikihow in Simple English along the lines of the Simple English version of Wikipedia.

I was honestly completely blown away by MissLunaRose’s new article about how to understand sex if you’re disabled. I loved how it used simple yet accurate terms to teach disadvantaged people with intellectual disabilities some really important information such as about how consent works and where to find accurate information about sex. Reading it brought me back to an idea

I’ve had for a little while now - a collection of a bunch of different Wikihow guides meant specifically for disabled people on how to do anything. I’m aware that we already have a pretty good expanding section covering disability issues, but I’ve noticed that most of the how-to’s that are meant for disabled people cover topics related to self-awareness (just one of many areas that disabled people need help in. I’d know…I am one. :)) And additionally, only a few of the articles cover subjects that would help anyone beyond early-high-school-age deal with age-based issues. (More college articles, people!!!)

Either way, the main purpose of a Wikihow like this would be to help sort how-to’s meant for intellectually disabled people into a variety of categories so they can easily be found, instead of making these people dig through the list of results that comes up when they search “for disabled people” on this wiki, hoping that at least one of the pages they find covers a topic they want to know how to do. A Simple English Wikihow could additionally serve as a temporary “substitute” for people on the internet who mainly speak languages that do not currently have running Wikihow websites (Ex. Japanese). Finally, it could be used as an easy-to-read reference for children, although I think the “Youth” section on here does that pretty well.

The only reservations I’d have about starting a Simple English Wikihow are:

1.) The fact that quite a few Wikihow articles cannot be easily broken down into instructions simple enough for some intellectually disabled people to read. Have you seen all those complicated medicine names in the Health section? They’d make anyone’s brain hurt…LOL!

2.) Different standards for accepting articles than most other languages. Some of the tasks the English Wikihow describes how to do could simply be too difficult for some intellectually disabled people, depending on how their particular disability affects them. Then, on the other hand, some pages that would likely be nominated for deletion on the English website as a “joke topic” could actually be pretty useful to a few intellectually disabled people (Ex. How To Tell Whether Your Pants Are On Backwards). 

Anyway, please let me know what you guys think! Do you think it’s a practical idea or not? What kind of articles would you want to see most? Also, if you’re interested in collaborating with me on this, please reply or send me a message! Thank you for taking the time to read this.:slight_smile:

  • EJB
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I think it’s ana amzing idea!

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@Aslamsisjd @Emojacquesbrel If you look at the articles on wikiHow, there is not much of a broad spectrum on vocabulary (unless you’re talking about the forums or messages).  I don’t think there is really much of a need for a simpler version of wikiHow.  Also, keep in mind that holding a website can be expensive.

However, if you feel the need to do so, you can make a project on wikiHow with the goal to simplify the information.

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Ah… no, there are quite a few editors who use more complex vocabulary. I’m one of them. (I’m a textbook-talker, if you will.) It’s also worth noting that some disabled people are intellectually disabled, and can’t understand what may seem like simple words to a nondisabled person. It can be really frustrating when you have to constantly stop reading to look up new words - I remember having to do that on Wikipedia all the time when I was a preteen, and it constantly interrupted my thought tracks.

I’d totally support a simple-English wikiHow, though I can’t say I’d be doing much editing there myself - I’d lapse into huge words again without realizing.:stuck_out_tongue: @Anna , your thoughts?

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I definitely dig the general concept of bringing helpful content to its intended audience with words they can easily understand, for sure. I’m not sure we’d necessarily want to pursue this as a separate language site, though, for a few reasons - similar to why we don’t make other English sites for Australian or Canadian users. The main two reasons are the impracticality of maintaining a totally separate site that’s still in English (from both an editing and engineering perspective), and the fact it’s likely to get confusing for folks searching for help, not being sure which page is suited to them (and it likely isn’t great for search engines, either, which can get confused about which page to serve up for a given query). We’ve always sought to provide one fully developed page per topic, and I’m not sure it’d be ideal to deviate from that path, at least not without a lot of thought about the implications and a lot of testing with readers.

That being said, I could see some more immediate promise in seeking out topics specific to folks with intellectually disabilities, as well as non-native English speakers, and working to make sure the vocabulary and syntax used in them is easy to understand and digest… perhaps gathering them in a toolkit sort of like the Teen Toolkit Natalie posted about a couple of weeks ago. It could make a cool project! I know Luna has actually done a bit of that in the past - finding topics relevant to folks with disabilities and clarifying and simplifying the language as needed. I’m all for that, and you never know - if it totally took off and those pages did great with readers, there might be more rationale for experimenting with and pursuing a more formal Simple English idea later on. Never say never:slight_smile:

@Emojacquesbrel   side note but we actually do have Japanese ;)  https://www.wikihow.jp

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I thought understand sex if you are disabled was awesome too and it was inspirational. It inspired me to think more about who is reading our articles and how helpful they are to everyone in the world. I try to keep in mind users who don’t speak English as a first language, users who don’t understand slang or sayings (eh common ground, equal footing, so to speak, work out) and users who aren’t in the US. For instance, I was REALLY confused about an article on repairing cracks in your ceiling with mud! It didn’t take much research to understand Five Minute Mud is common in the US. If I had been trying to research that in another country where English isn’t an official language, and English wasn’t my first language, I think I would of given up, and, wondered why anyone at wikiHow would suggest smearing earth and water on the ceiling! I will be adding to the list people who find simple language easier. I am ALL for simple, easy to understand articles and happy to help create them. Not all the articles need a simple version, but maybe some of the articles with universal appeal, should be written in a simplified way and a link could be added to the “original”, sort of like the “in a hurry?” section is available for those who like results in a hurry. Leave a message on my talk page if you think I can help with making an article easier to understand.

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I have an idea- I haven’t read through the recent posts, so I don’t know if someone has already suggested this, but here it is: every article could have another section written in simple English. Kind of like the “In A Hurry?” section, but bigger.

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How about we all just make this our own goal if we want to?  Make a project, or just put it in your own hands.  We can all make articles look more simple with editing, right?

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Yes, I was just thinking of something like that. Maybe, for certain steps in an article, there could be something on the side that you could click saying “Simplified Version” on it that shows a different version of that step written in simpler terms.

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@Emojacquesbrel @Aslamsisjd  I think there’s some exciting promise in that idea (originally mentioned by @HumanBeing , as it happens), but it’s not the kind of thing we could rush into without a lot of testing. The “In a Hurry” section itself has been tested in several forms over many months (or even years?) at this point, with careful tracking and review of the reader data across different topics and topic areas. Any similar “simplified versions” should really receive that same kind of thorough experimentation process, to make sure there aren’t any issues from a reader or search point of view, as mentioned in my first post. We’d want to look closely at reader feedback and experiences, to make sure any changes in that realm help rather than hurt:slight_smile:

If this idea has wings, I can certainly throw it at the folks at the wikiHaus to see if we can get engineering and PM time to do that kind of experimentation in due course! At the moment, though, the best way to establish some “proof of concept” for a simplified English version in general would probably be to go ahead and try a couple of small-scale test edits of articles as they are (not second versions, but simplification of existing text on a given topic). 

If you can find an article or two that are aimed at an audience that might prefer simplified text over what’s there now, we can start with those. Let me know what topic you’re looking at, and we can take note of the helpfulness and other reader feedback/data on the page; then you can make some changes to simplify that article, and we can reset the data to see if the simplifications improve reader experience/ratings or not. It might take a few weeks to get enough data to see how readers feel about it, but if it’s looking good (ie a helpfulness improvement), we can expand to a few more titles from there, and see what happens with those. At that point, if there’s promise and the concept has legs, we can totally put together a pitch for broader reader experimentation on the kind of format you’re talking about. 

This could be a really cool collaboration, experiment, and even new direction in the end! Like all format changes we make, we just have to start with small-scale experimentation to see the impact it might have, before going whole hog on any broader changes or feature requests:wink:

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I really can’t think of any specific articles, but I’d be glad to help any way I can.

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My thoughts:

I dislike the notion of simplifying well-written articles with complex terminology. If there is a specific article aimed at experts and is difficult to understand, you can use the {{clarity}} tag to signify clarification is required–likely via the addition of detail (such as explanations contained within parentheses). To rewrite articles that our contributors have worked hard to write, especially in complex English–or to impose a policy restricting complex terminology from being utilized would be detrimental for many as we would be required to adapt our writing practices. Additionally, a more diverse usage of language results in higher-quality articles, ultimately resulting in improved search engine rankings.

Concise and sophisticated writing is the best way to go, in my opinion.

If there are concerns for those who struggle with the language, we have ESL articles: wikihow.com/Category:English-as-a-Second-Language-(ESL)

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@Batreeq , I don’t think Jacques was suggesting we simplify every page on the site - mostly just pages specific to those with disabilities or who might be younger. There’s benefits and drawbacks to both simple and complex writing, and I think Anna was also suggesting we try using simple writing where it might seem appropriate, such as pages aimed at intellectually disabled readers.:slight_smile:

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Man, I never knew this would become such a predicament.  Wait a second, we never got the opinion from the readers themselves!  Not just the members, I’m talking about the thousands or even millions of anonymous readers who read wikiHow everyday.

Perhaps we should make a poll to see what the readers think.

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Yes, of course - within reason.:slight_smile:

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A poll sounds like a good idea!

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@Aslmasisjd   Thanks!

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@Thehelper101 We don’t tend to decide this kind of thing by a poll - we do it by running experiments to look at actual reader experience and feedback, as mentioned above. What people say/think they’ll want in a poll can be surprisingly different from what they actually find helpful when they’re in need and looking for assistance. If you want to pursue this idea, that’s the way to go, starting with some small-scale experimental edits and tracking how they do with real life readers who are seeking help:slight_smile:

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@Anna I agree.

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Yes, that’s closer to what I meant. I don’t mean to underestimate or assume the abilities of intellectually disabled people or children, but there are certainly articles on this website that not many intellectually disabled people and/or children would be able to do. For instance, children are too young to do most of the tasks in the Business and Finance section, regardless of how well they can read the instructions, and many intellectually disabled people (unfortunately) would be unable to acquire the skills needed to become, say, neurosurgeons. So I understand why it would be kind of a waste of time to make simplified versions of these articles.

P.S. I usually just go by EJB, but feel free to call me whatever you want. lol