Over the past few weeks, I’ve been watching the forums, and although I feel it’s great that there’s so much love here, barnstars have been for special cases. However, it seems the more and more I watch it, it seems like more and more are being given out - making it feel like they are not being given out to those that rightfully have been sent one.
Is it just me, or do you feel like barnstars have begun running rampant around the site - and not in our usual way as per standards set in policy based on wikihow.com/Award-a-wikiHow-User-a-Barnstar
and wikihow.com/Earn-a-Barnstar-on-wikiHow
? While it’s great that people are getting commended for their work, I don’t feel like some of these were really rightfully placed.
Here’s a generous compromise: I’ve heard from elders and those I’ve began talking with - through Staff, Admins, and even those we’ve lost to other things. How about sending a glorious message to the user thanking them? Sometimes, words speak louder than actions, and barnstars are sent to those who need more than just same words from several users.
I’ve been noticing the same thing. For the past few months, barnstars have been awarded more and more frequently. I’ve only ever given out one myself - granted, it was fairly recently, but I believe the user truly deserved it for several reasons - but it seems that some users give them out more frequently. Some new users especially give out barnstars with little purpose, typically to their Welcomer or a user who guided them into editing, just to say something along the lines of “Thanks for all your help, you’re the best!” - but they seldom create forums posts regarding it. That being said, there has been an uptick of forums posts. Maybe it’s just more newer users making bold edits around the site that are being noticed and appreciated, maybe it’s that some people want to give an award and turn to barnstars straightaway. I do agree that general talk page awards or simply leaving a message full of your thoughts can be a wonderful alternative. Maybe some highlighting of these other awards would help. I feel that some users may not know just how many talk page awards exist, and they’re just as touching. Or, as aforementioned, a simple message can also be great. Thank you for being willing to bring this up. I know receiving a barnstar (especially for the first time) can be incredibly exciting for many users, but it’s true that they’re typically supposed to be for special cases. I’ll try to keep all this in mind for the future and hope others do as well.
XxVxX
5
I’ve noticed this too, and I have to say I agree. While the users receiving Barnstars have on the most part been making helpful edits, as was said, Barnstars are typically reserved for special cases. I personally have not yet given out a Barnstar yet, but at the same time, I can see why people might feel it’s a great way to spread Wikilove.
Having said that, I do feel that the large amount of talk page awards we have aren’t highlighted as much, and many users may not even know that these exist, as Helpie said. I don’t even know if there’s an article on giving these awards (much like there is on giving a Barnstar), and I wonder if that may be helpful in order to give more recognition to the talk page awards. If more users knew about these, they may tend to use these more (since there are so many) or even, like you said, leave nice talk page messages.
I don’t believe there’s an article on giving out talk page awards, but I believe it would be worth creating even just for a list of talk page awards alone.
I have to be honest in that I have such a hard time with assigning worth to a barnstar, because we as a community don’t really have a clear idea of what they’re worth. They’re meant to be for incredible things, but… what is
incredible? Some things seem incredible without context, like if someone thinks Seymour Edits is all one person; some things seem mundane without it. Anna awarded me a barnstar last year for how much I’d grown on the site since I had joined, and to someone who interacted with me in my earlier days, the context of that barnstar is very clear, but it’s not as significant to a user who joined in January.
Barnstars themselves have fluctuated in worth, too. There’s been periods where the amount of barnstars awarded in a year were in the single digits, and there’s been periods where they’ve been given out much more freely. I don’t think they should be restricted for only the Best of the Best™ by any means, because then we could easily slip back into rarely awarding them because “they’re for truly amazing things” and nobody knows what amazing
is, but we do know that they’re supposed to be given out as the highest form of award, so that means nobody gives them.
But I have to be honest in that I do feel there’s been an uptick in people just awarding them to their friends because “you’re amazing, here’s a barnstar!”, and that’s not the purpose of a barnstar. Even though it’s tough to assign worth to a barnstar, it’s clear that they’re meant for those who are doing
exceptional things. It’s not just because someone is nice, or because they achieved a role on the site. Those by themselves are positive forces on wikiHow and they’re worth a congratulations or a positive message, but they’re not barnstar-worthy. I personally would give a barnstar to someone who has made a massive impact on multiple aspects of the site in some way, or who has always worked hard and/or behind-the-scenes and deliberately stays out of the way because they don’t mind the lack of recognition. It’s not a “because you’re nice and make good edits” kind of deal.
We actually do have a list of Talk page awards (on wikiHow:Templates
), but I don’t use them because most of them haven’t really been edited since incredibly early and they don’t really match the site at all (and some of them are broken or have painfully bright colors). I’m curious as to whether they’d get more use if we adapted them to the more modern, green look of the site and made them more apparent so that users know they exist, and it’s not just “the only awards we have are barnstars”.
XxVxX
9
Agree 100 percent with this-I did notice many of the templates either are way too bright, or just simply aren’t updated, and I think updating them could be a good way to help users know they exist.
I’d noticed the increase in Barnstars and I applaud Chris for bringing this up as it is discussion worthy. I’m my opinion, people are free to give out whatever Barnstars they like, but, people ought to think, twice, or maybe more, before awarding one. Giving lots and lots out makes them less special. If you think you want to award someone a Barnstar, think about it for a while, it’s not going to be less meaningful for not being delivered for a week or so and you can be sure of your decision and the recipient being worthy of a Barnstar.
As much as I believe that people who have received barnstars lately were deserving of such an award, I have to agree. I have awarded and received a couple lately, and seeing the amount of barnstars awarded when I first joined wikiHow, compared to right about now, there has been quite the uptick. I don’t honestly know, maybe there’s just some amazing people on the wiki right now, or maybe it needs to be emphasized that barnstars should be saved for amazing efforts… but as Alex said, there really isn’t a hard-and-fast definition of amazing.
I think we could encourage use of the award templates
as an alternative. It is hard to say who is deserving of a barnstar and who isn’t, as it’s a matter of opinion. I have once received two barnstars in a row from a new user, and if I remember correctly, one of them said something along the lines of “my best friend” as the reason. To be completely honest, sometimes receiving a barnstar doesn’t feel as great as it should, as it is sometimes rewarded by users with less experience who are just trying to be kind and make friends, I’m sure we were all at that stage somewhen. I have only awarded one barnstar, and it wasn’t a rash decision. I had been observing the user’s contributions beforehand and I was impressed. The user stuck out to me and I truly thought they were deserving of a barnstar. I don’t think we should completely stop the use of barnstars (though that was never suggested), but we need to encourage users to give it more thought and reserve them for only cases where they feel a user has went above and beyond. Awards templates seem reasonable, unless they then turn into barnstars 2.0 in terms of giving them out. I always think personalised messages are always the nicest. I remember discovering templates when I started, and I thought they were the best thing ever, and then you feel inclined to overuse them because you have just made the discovery. I gather some other newer users might feel the same.
@RubyRoseRain
I’ll admit I felt that way a LOT when I was new, and occasionally I still do. I try to remember that a barnstar is for “amazing” efforts, but still we don’t know what “amazing” is described as. Ah well.
JayneG
16
I love the idea of revamping talk page award templates! They do seem a little outdated
I think it would be awesome to update them to be more modern and fit the wikiHow branding/colors. Great idea @Galactic-Radiance
.
Is anyone up for some fun? Perhaps anyone interested could have a play around in their namespace and then we can come together to get consensus for some revamped designs?
I have to admit that I’m not very experienced in template creation/updating, but I’d love to see what you all can come up with and maybe I’ll learn a thing or two! I’m going to check in with Daisy, who is our creative director, to get some good complementary colors to use, along with any tips that might help us out
I’ll check back next week with more info!
I know some details in Template space, but I just don’t have the time or chance to dabble much with the majority of them. If you need any help, feel free to contact me but on few issues. @jayneg
I’m willing to help update some of the templates. I usually can get templates to function after a bit of messing around. And I have been editing some of the award templates before to fix some formatting issues that came up with them with the recent upgrades, so I know about some of the issues that the templates have.
@JayneG
I’d love to help out with designing the templates, after my finals, that is.
Great discussion, everyone. I agree that one reason more barnstars are awarded is because newer contributors may not be aware of other ways to show appreciation on the site.
Is there an article on how to show one’s appreciation on wikiHow?
Yeah, I’m surprised each time I come on the forums and see that another person got a barnstar. Although some deserved it, others I was just really confused. I like the idea of just sending kind and appreciative messages instead and leaving barnstars for more honorable things.
I’m not very creative, but I’m sure y’all will come up with some cool lookin’ templates. Good luck!
I’d be interested in writing an article on that topic (after I check to see if there’s a duplicate)! I’d also be willing to help with updating some templates
EDIT: Alrighty, a quick search shows me there’s a page on how to “Spread Wiki Love Around wikiHow” which is currently demoted. I could try to expand this article instead, though I feel that “Show Appreciation on wikiHow” may be a better title. EDIT 2: I do believe that showing wikiLove and showing appreciation are distinguishable enough, so I went ahead and created the article. If anyone wants to help, feel free to check out this discussion: https://forums.wikihow.com/discussion/30113/anyone-want-to-help-with-an-article-on-how-to-show-appreciation-on-wikihow
Kitty0
23
I agree with everyone! I have seen many users with Barnstars that basically say “thank you” instead of addressing what really gave them the award. It seems as some users give them out just for fun! I will help create some templates too, if any help is needed =)
I have noticed a lot of barnstars being awarded as well. Though, I do think that some barnstars actually have merit, while others kind of don’t.
I think if a new editor wants to show WikiLove to the welcomer, either a personal message or a {{cookies}} may do. After all, who loves cookies?
The last thing I want is that every week we have another barnstar being awarded. I think barnstars are maybe something that should kind of be awarded at the community level, though I think barnstars by experienced editors at the individual level is also ok, as long as the editor knows what they are doing
Sorry I have been immersed in this epic story rhythm game
for the past couple of days. But I think people should understand what a barnstar is meant for and what it is not meant for.
Jordan
25
Thanks for bringing this up, @Byankno1
. Though I’m more of a lurker/observer these days on the forums rather than an active participant…I have noticed this trend as well, and while I’m sure the recipients are deserving, I recall (especially years ago) when Barnstars were awarded much more rarely/discretionally and therefore felt like they carried more weight. I am of the camp that we should return to that frame of thinking for these awards, as honestly, when Barnstars are being awarded left and right - this cheapens its value.
