Per the previous discussion
about updating the Talk Page Policy, we are moving forward with voting on the proposed changes. The proposal has been finalized at this time; no further changes will be made.
The policy proposal can be found here: https://www.wikihow.com/wikiHow:Policy-Proposals/Accessibility-Amendment-to-the-Talk-Page-Policy
Voting on this proposal begins on March 15, 2021 at 12:00 AM PST (3:00 AM EST, 8:00 AM GMT) and ends on March 29, 2021 at 12:00 AM PST (3:00 AM EST, 8:00 AM GMT).
For those unfamiliar with the process, here is how to vote on a policy proposal:
- Read the proposal thoroughly.
- Click on the Edit button on top of the page, and scroll to the Voting section.
- Choose where you are going to vote (support, partial support, or oppose), and sign under that section using four tildes (
~~~~
). Publish your edit to the page after you’ve signed.
- You are welcome to share your thoughts on the proposal page when you vote, but keep it civil.
- You can use the Discussion page or this forum thread to share your thoughts, but please do not use it to vote.
9 Likes
Is it the link you shared? Where’s the voting section? Is it that part at the top? Sorry sometimes it takes a long time for me to figure out things
When I looked at the policy page on my iPhone, I couldn’t find the Voting section. I’d like to vote, but without this, I can’t help it not to vote.
@FireFly612
@EpcotMagic
That’s because voting starts on the 15th. Today is the 14th. I haven’t added the Voting section yet
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The voting section has been added! Voting will close on March 29. Go forth and vote!
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Global pin for two weeks until the end of the voting period
Wondering if we may also want to do a temporary change to the site notice for those who don’t frequent the forums much? This is what we did during the beta phase of the 2013 redesign to gather feedback from the wider community.
7 Likes
I was thinking of asking @Eric
to send out a mass message via the wikiHow Herald, but that could also be a good idea!
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What if the user continues to add back the thing(s) that were taken off? Do we report it to the ANB?
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I think there will probably be a message template named {{accessibility}}, or something like that, and an admin will remove the things, and leave the message?
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JayneG
11
I just updated the site notice - I think that’s a great idea to make sure those who don’t frequent the forums are also aware. I just might need a reminder to change it back…!
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@Artsy_Koala
That seems unlikely, since most people understand when you explain the issue and/or policy - but yeah, if someone explains why something is a problem and the owner repeatedly puts that thing back anyway, an ANB report seems appropriate
@ChocoCat1122
There likely will be a template that any editor can send to alert someone else that their design poses an issue. We just don’t have that template yet, so it’s not mentioned in the policy proposal. The way the proposal is set up allows for violations to be handled by any editor if need be, so I imagine most cases probably won’t require admin intervention.
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Thanks, Alex!! I doubt it will happen (unless a spammer does so), but I was just curious.
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This is a bit of a tangent, but does my draft template User: Awesome Aasim/Template:Accessibility - wikiHow
represent the proposed talk page policy changes accurately? Or is anything missing/unnecessary? BTW I have been thinking about using the name {{talkdesign}} instead of the current name.
If this policy passes, and the template is accurately worded and has consensus, then I will move it to template space.
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I think that the proposed template is to complicated, and it doesn’t actually tell users what to do. Also, most the W3C accessibility guidelines does not apply here, and I don’t think that any user would be able to understand it unless they read and understand the talk page policy (which I can guarantee new and younger users won’t do). I think that the template needs to be able to change based on what the violation actually is, much like the username template.
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Although I do think that the 24 hour grace period is reasonable once this is fully implemented, would it be possible for this timeline to be extended for the first week this goes into effect? That way page designers and other wikiHow specialists won’t be overwhelmed by a sudden influx of talk page redesign requests, and those that are able to do their own editing will have a bit more leeway. Just a thought!
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When it comes to a Talk template, I feel bringing up anything legal would backfire. Most editors who overdesign Talk pages are often young, nondisabled, and aren’t aware that their designs can cause problems (disability-related or not). Bringing up the ADA or discrimination can imply “you’re breaking the law” or “you’re a bad person”, which can put younger users on the defensive and result in hostility or unproductive discussions. I think we should just stick with an overall message of “it’s policy”, and limit discussions of the ADA to anyone who actually asks about it.
R2 made a suggestion for the template in the initial thread, which I’ll crosspost here:
What if we were to modify this slightly, to mimic something like this?
Template sample message
Hey! I see you’ve created a design for your Talk Page, and it’s always great to see creativity and personal expression. However, I did notice that your Talk Page design violates the [[wikiHow:Talk Page Policy|Talk Page Policy]].
– (left blank) If you’re not sure how, just ask me by replying to this message!
– (borders) Thick borders can push text inwards and make messages hard to read, especially on smaller screens. Could you make sure your total border width doesn’t exceed 1.5em?
– (font) The font you’re using can be hard for some editors to read. Could you change it to a serif, sans-serif, or monospace font? You can find a list of those here,
(include a link to a list of accessible fonts) or use the default font.
– (message color) Messages need to be black text on white background so that everyone can read them. Could you change your Talk Page back to black text on white background?
– (obscured messages) Something on your Talk Page is covering up the messages, so they can’t easily be read. Could you make sure that the messages or message box on your Talk Page aren’t obscured?
– (GIFs that don’t warrant immediate removal) A GIF on your Talk page flashes more than three times a second, which can cause seizures in some people. Could you please remove the GIF?
You won’t be blocked, don’t worry - you can just fix the design. If it’s not fixed by tomorrow, another editor can do it for you. If you need help fixing your design, you can ask me or the [[wikiHow_Talk:Help Team|Help Team]] for assistance.
Let me know if you have any questions!
@Reepicheep
That sounds reasonable! I do think we should immediately fix things that could trigger seizures or make anything unusable (as outlined in the proposal currently), but for minor issues, I have no problem giving a longer grace period after implementation. What do others think?
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That seems completely reasonable and I see no reason why it shouldn’t.
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So, @anon74718567
tried applying responsive on a phone… this is my talk page:
I’m going to try and fix my page, and then we’ll see how it looks!
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That definitely is not accessible.
BTW I learned of a new feature (on Chromium browsers, including Edge and Chrome): If you press F12 and go into the element selector, you can see under the “Accessibility” bubble potential accessibility problems like contrast.
That way, you can make sure that everyone can read your talk page nicely.
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